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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 3 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1302<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: ignorance of the law and secret laws<BR>
RE: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
Re: Emperors of the Rule of Man #8<BR>
Re: Solomani Rim data<BR>
Re: Solomani Rim data<BR>
Re: Solomani Rim data<BR>
RE: Border Guards<BR>
Re: Emperors of the Rule of Man <BR>
Re: Emperors of the Rule of Man #8<BR>
Re Shakedown Glitches<BR>
Re:[OT] One Day in Peace 2<BR>
Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
Re: Taxation (off topic then back on topic)<BR>
Re: [OT] Cultural Differences...<BR>
Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any....<BR>
Re: Taxation (off topic then back on topic)<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
RE: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
RE: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
Just when we thought we figured it out...<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
real world travelling:  Detroit<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 13:35:50 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Mark Preston wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The weapons ban in the UK would be considered extreme by many other<BR>
> countries. It is far easier to say what is permitted than what is banned -<BR>
> for instance we are not permitted to carry clubs.<BR>
<BR>
And the difference between a club and a cricket-bat is...? Or have they<BR>
finally outlawed cricket for the evil galaxy-wide-banned habit that it<BR>
is? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 12:35:53 PST<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: ignorance of the law and secret laws<BR>
<BR>
>From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Other societies may have laws that are secret, and it<BR>
>may even be a crime to know the contents of those laws<BR>
>without proper authorization.  In this way, the<BR>
>citizenry are kept afraid that they are unwittingly<BR>
>committing crimes, and the police can always accuse<BR>
>them of criminal conduct and use that as leverage to<BR>
>obtain an advantage.  ("Comrade Shopkeeper, I've<BR>
>examined your books and records, and there appear to<BR>
>be violations of the secret currency laws.  I will<BR>
>allow you to put them in order, and I will return in<BR>
>two days to review them again.  I am sure that they<BR>
>will be in good order at that time.  In addition, I<BR>
>would like to enjoy the company of your daughter<BR>
>between now and then. Do we have an understanding?")<BR>
<BR>
I've toyed with the idea of something along parallel lines (though not the <BR>
same; the two could be combined). Through history, 'guilty until proven <BR>
innocent' is much more common than the reverse. A society could extend this <BR>
in an extreme way: all citizens are assumed to have committed some crime <BR>
that the government has not yet learned of. Thus, they can be detained <BR>
and/or searched at the whim of the police as the person is obviously guilty <BR>
of some criminal act. Of course, those in the government would, for the most <BR>
part, have to be assumed 'guiltless' (or at least as one rose in the <BR>
heirarchy, one proved oneself less guilty).<BR>
<BR>
Combine this with secret laws at your own risk ...<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>A related issue is highlighted by the following<BR>
>extremes:<BR>
><BR>
>Everything not prohibited is allowed.<BR>
>Everything not allowed is prohibited.<BR>
>Everything not prohitibed is mandatory, and everything<BR>
>not mandatory is prohibited.<BR>
><BR>
>Which extreme more closely describes the society in<BR>
>question?<BR>
<BR>
Probably #2, though a highly bureaucratic goverment might opt for #3.<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 16:22:34 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
<BR>
John Buston writes:<BR>
>My players are currently having their ship undergo repairs/annual<BR>
>maintenance in a lower tech starport than the ship. They are also<BR>
>performing self-maintenance on the jump drive, fusion reactor and<BR>
>thrusters, as well as using an experimental jump drive component.<BR>
><BR>
>Anyone have any nice glitches I can throw at them during the<BR>
>shakedown?<BR>
<BR>
Software incompatability between the main computer and control subsystems<BR>
in the drives: "WARNING: POWER PLANT SYSTEM ERROR, PLANT WILL BE SHUT DOWN<BR>
UNLESS EMERGENCY OVERRIDE ENGAGED" or "NONRECOVERABLE SYSTEM ERROR, MAIN<BR>
COMPUTER MUST REBOOT, SAY 'REBOOT' TO CONTINUE"<BR>
<BR>
Critical part failure, as a low tech spare folds under the stress of the<BR>
advanced drive: "WARNING: PRIMARY COOLANT LOSS IN POWER PLANT, PLANT WILL<BR>
BE SHUT DOWN UNLESS EMERGENCY OVERRIDE ENGAGED" or "What's that burning<BR>
smell coming from the sensors panel?"<BR>
<BR>
Substandard part performance: "That smell in the fresher?  It looks like<BR>
the new filters in the water recycling system are impeding the flow..."<BR>
<BR>
Replacement parts that work fine, but don't do everything that they are<BR>
supposed to: "What do you mean we can't reduce the floor-plates to 0.5G?"<BR>
<BR>
Parts that are not compatable with other parts: "Why won't the vacc suit<BR>
air tank fit into the @#%*! recharger?"<BR>
<BR>
Miscelanious mistakes caused by unfamiliarity with the vessel's systems:<BR>
"Here's why the jump drive burned out, none of the warning systems were<BR>
properly hooked up."<BR>
<BR>
Oh, those poor PCs.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 16:45:05 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Emperors of the Rule of Man #8<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/3/99 1:48:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, tiamat@tsoft.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Ah well.  What kind of a last name is Estigarribia?  I just am still<BR>
>  laughing over whoever it was that asked me how my ex-friend came to know<BR>
>  the Emperor Hiroshi!<BR>
<BR>
I always assumed "Estigarribia" was meant to be Spanish.<BR>
<BR>
FWIW, in the G:T Solomani Rim book I plan on claiming that Hiroshi<BR>
I was originally Peruvian.  There are a lot of Japanese immigrants in Peru,<BR>
with mixed Japanese-Spanish names. . .notably the current President<BR>
(Alberto Fujimori).<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 16:46:26 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim data<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/3/99 2:09:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
postmark.design@btinternet.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> hydrographics is 2d6-7 + atmosphere (not size)<BR>
<BR>
Not according to my copy of LBB 3 :-).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 16:49:13 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim data<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/3/99 2:16:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
copeab@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> IIRC, hydrographics was modified by _atmosphere_, not _planetary size_.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  I think the rolls were:<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Diameter: 2d-2<BR>
>  Atmosphere: 2d-7+Diameter<BR>
>  Hydrographics: 2d-7+Atmosphere<BR>
>  <BR>
>  So, in the above case, you'd need to roll 11 or 12 on 2d6.<BR>
<BR>
You're the second person to claim that.  I wonder if it was a common<BR>
misconception or something.  Might explain how the Supplement 10<BR>
data got this way. . .<BR>
<BR>
LBB 3, page 12, step 2-D: "Generate hydrographic percentage.<BR>
2D-7+planetary size (size 0 or 1 requires hydrographic 0; Atmosphere<BR>
0, 1 or A+, DM -4)."<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 16:52:05 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim data<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/3/99 2:31:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Also, GDW sometimes applied  arbitary  modifiers  to  sectors  to<BR>
>  change the "flavour" ... like DM +1 on population  rolls  on  all<BR>
>  worlds in the Solomani Rim (for example) to indicate it had  been<BR>
>  settled a long time.<BR>
<BR>
Aha.  I wondered if this weren't the case. . .the Solomani Rim<BR>
worlds certainly tend to be high-population with a fairly consistent<BR>
high tech level.  The possibility is one reason why I posted -- I<BR>
wondered if there wasn't a well-known explanation for this.<BR>
<BR>
Can anyone verify that a similar modifier was applied to the<BR>
hydrographics on the Solomani Rim?<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:10:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav:  How common is the non-self incrimination<BR>
> right in planetarylaw?<BR>
<BR>
The Terrans probably carried the idea from the<BR>
American/European model of the social contract that<BR>
they brought into space.  On the other hand, the<BR>
concept probably does not mesh well with Vilani<BR>
culture, where protection of the individual from the<BR>
state is a foreign concept.  So that's a good<BR>
question, but the answer is elusive.<BR>
<BR>
>Is it a low law level concept, high LL concept, or <BR>
>does it span both?<BR>
<BR>
The higher the law level, the greater the level of<BR>
governmental intrusion on personal affairs and the<BR>
greater the level of corruption.  Lower law level<BR>
societies therefore provide more formal safeguards to<BR>
individuals against the state.<BR>
<BR>
>Is it allowed in Imperial Law courts?<BR>
<BR>
Not in my Traveller Universe, unless the person<BR>
asserting the right is a noble.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:12:49 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Emperors of the Rule of Man <BR>
<BR>
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
>Ah well.  What kind of a last name is Estigarribia?  <BR>
<BR>
I think it's Basque.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:18:33 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Emperors of the Rule of Man #8<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 3 Nov 1999 JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 11/3/99 1:48:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, tiamat@tsoft.com <BR>
> writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Ah well.  What kind of a last name is Estigarribia?  I just am still<BR>
> >  laughing over whoever it was that asked me how my ex-friend came to know<BR>
> >  the Emperor Hiroshi!<BR>
> <BR>
> I always assumed "Estigarribia" was meant to be Spanish.<BR>
> <BR>
> FWIW, in the G:T Solomani Rim book I plan on claiming that Hiroshi<BR>
> I was originally Peruvian.  There are a lot of Japanese immigrants in Peru,<BR>
> with mixed Japanese-Spanish names. . .notably the current President<BR>
> (Alberto Fujimori).<BR>
> <BR>
That is true, but it's usually the other way around.  (It always kills me<BR>
to hear Japanese names pronounced as though they were Spanish.  Then again<BR>
I've often said that if one more person calls me "Carrie" they will think<BR>
I'm telekinetic after all!)  Well, he could just as easily be from<BR>
California.  There are many persons of mixed descent here.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)  not Keri, Kerry or Carrie<BR>
<BR>
"Supeingo ga wakarimasen, dammit!"  (overheard by Hiroshi, muttered under<BR>
Kiri's breath, as the third little old lady of the day has refused to<BR>
believe that Kiri does not speak Spanish, really, really, sorry, even if <BR>
she does have coal black hair and live in a Latino neighborhood.)<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:25:20 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Shakedown Glitches<BR>
<BR>
>My players are currently having their ship undergo repairs/annual<BR>
>maintenance in<BR>
>a lower tech starport than the ship. They are also performing self-maintenance<BR>
>on the jump drive, fusion reactor and thrusters, as well as using an<BR>
>experimental jump drive component.<BR>
><BR>
>Anyone have any nice glitches I can throw at them during the shakedown?<BR>
><BR>
one fun one would be to have the experimental drive component result in<BR>
chromatic variations, for example, red shift everything, or none of the<BR>
frequencies in the greens can propigate, etc. Fairly harmless, unless<BR>
you're tweaking with teltales and other displays...<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:56:42 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re:[OT] One Day in Peace 2<BR>
<BR>
>Robert Prior writes:<BR>
><snip><BR>
>K'kree? Paint? Stomp them into the ground.  (Parenthetically, the first<BR>
>time I see an animal rights type throw paint on the leather jacket of a<BR>
>biker, because they oppose killing animals for clothing, I'll conceed that<BR>
>they are serious about their beliefs.)<BR>
></snip><BR>
><BR>
>OT:  Not all "animal rights types" are paint throwers.<BR>
<BR>
Point taken. I was referring to the paint-throwing types, although that<BR>
wasn't clear from my post.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 23:06:42 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: A Day of Peace<BR>
<BR>
>At 05:35 PM 11/1/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>>What seems to happen, according to Watson (in "Dark Nature"), is that the<BR>
>>folks who's team/boxer/whatever won go home happy, and the losers go home<BR>
>>and pick fights. (Note: this is a statistical thing, like hot weather, and<BR>
>>applies to groups not individuals). Vicariously winning seems to remove the<BR>
>>need to win in a conflict, vicariously losing leaves all the original<BR>
>>aggression entact.<BR>
>><BR>
>>I strongly urge people to read "Dark Nature". I found it an excellent book<BR>
>>on the biological components of evil. Think of it as a cross between<BR>
>>science and philosophy. Even if you don't agree with Watson (and I do),<BR>
>>you'll get a lot of neat ideas for Traveller cultures out of it.<BR>
><BR>
>I can believe this.  However, this seems to be a further argument for<BR>
>violent movies, at least for the kind in which the hero wins....<BR>
><BR>
>           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
<BR>
Assuming, of course, that you identify with the hero.  I usually don't, at<BR>
least in many American movies, because I seem to have little in common with<BR>
a lot of their heros.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 23:12:26 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Taxation (off topic then back on topic)<BR>
<BR>
Me:<BR>
>> I've let them die in the street on one planet, then assessed the estate for<BR>
>> cleaning fees (to get the blood out of the concrete). A _really_ nasty<BR>
>> trick is a planet where _everything_ is user-pay, right down to asking<BR>
>> directions (and that should have been a clue that medical care wouldn't be<BR>
>> provided on credit...).<BR>
<BR>
Leonard:<BR>
>A nice touch for such a planet might be that nothing s "illegal" per<BR>
>se. It's just that there's a fine/fee for doing it. With some things<BR>
>carrying *really* high fees.<BR>
<BR>
Yup, that's what I did.<BR>
<BR>
Quick quiz: name at least three science fiction settings which have used<BR>
this idea.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 18:19:09 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences...<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 3 Nov 1999 04:02:16 -0500 (EST), Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>As an interesting side note Kosher food is getting more and more popular in <BR>
>the US. Muslims love it because they know there will be no pork products in <BR>
>it, and many non Jews think it's cleaner and/or healthier for you. I can't <BR>
>vouch for this, though I can't see a Rabbi signing off on a dirty assembly <BR>
>line. They are as tough as a Marine DI inspecting a rack, when it comes to <BR>
>inspecting the food prep area for non kosher food remnants...<BR>
<BR>
There's another reason for Moslems 'liking' Kosher food - Moslem<BR>
'halal' is in many ways similar to kashrut, although some of the<BR>
more arcane standards are relaxed. Most imams will, if made to<BR>
understand that halal foods are not available in an area, approve<BR>
kosher as an acceptable alternative.<BR>
<BR>
The reverse is not true, however.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 23:23:36 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any....<BR>
<BR>
At 15:32 -0500 3/11/99, "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> >Okay Leonard, [Hasan chop!]<BR>
>><BR>
>>Eek!<BR>
<BR>
That's the first flame I've seen in a while which went nuclear from <BR>
the first shot. :-/ Kind of 2300 Kafer-ish...<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Orbital precision strikes are much less manpower demanding <BR>
than sending in the gropos.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 18:42:15 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Taxation (off topic then back on topic)<BR>
<BR>
>A nice touch for such a planet might be that nothing s "illegal" per<BR>
>se. It's just that there's a fine/fee for doing it. With some things<BR>
>carrying *really* high fees.<BR>
><BR>
>Yup, that's what I did.<BR>
><BR>
>Quick quiz: name at least three science fiction settings which have used<BR>
>this idea.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm..One of the planets in the book, "Healer", by F. Paul Wilson used this.<BR>
One could even buy any type of drugs or pornography provided one didn't hurt<BR>
anyone else.  Punishements were usually public floggings.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:35:37 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Nov 99, at 21:26, cos 90 wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Not personally. But alcohol is easy to make -- I've done it myself (my dad<BR>
> and I used to make our own beer). I know of very few people who are able<BR>
> to manufacture automatic and semi-automatic weapons in their own homes...<BR>
<BR>
Actually a full-auto SMG such as the old Sten Gun is very easy to make, <BR>
especially if you're not too concerned about its lifespan or accuracy. <BR>
In a SMG even rifling is optional if you're really short on facilities <BR>
and/or time. Also note that the Afgans were making accurate (in terms <BR>
of being very similar, not in terms of hitting things) copies of AK47's <BR>
using simple simthies, files, etc.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:35:37 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
On 2 Nov 99, at 20:29, Juliean Galak wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:33 PM 11/3/99 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
> >If it's any help I've had Myth II, which uses DirectX 6, running under<BR>
> >NT4.0 SP4. I was using a P133 with 32MB, which I've since reinstalled '95<BR>
> >on because I-War was unstable under NT :( Aside from I-War and old DOS<BR>
> >games I've had a much better time with NT than with '95, and I'm even<BR>
> >going to talk about '98.<BR>
> <BR>
> You got DirectX to install under NT4?  How?  I was told the installer<BR>
> won't even run....<BR>
<BR>
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. It seems to depend on the <BR>
version of DirectX. Apparently MT has a form of DirectX in it, and <BR>
presumeably it was good enough to run Myth II. I can't remember whether <BR>
DX6 installed or not, but I'm pretty sure DX5 did.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:35:37 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Nov 99, at 0:08, Juliean Galak wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 09:26 PM 11/2/99 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> >Not personally. But alcohol is easy to make -- I've done it myself (my<BR>
> >dad and I used to make our own beer). I know of very few people who are<BR>
> >able to manufacture automatic and semi-automatic weapons in their own<BR>
> >homes...<BR>
> <BR>
> Anyone with a decent machine shop.... (I have at least three <BR>
> friends/aquaintances that have full metalworking shops at home)  The<BR>
> really hard thing to do (I suspect) is casings....<BR>
<BR>
Casings are optional - you can simply make a fuller wooden stock. <BR>
Volume production of rifled barrels would be the choke point, IMO, <BR>
especially of you're making longarms. Pistol and SMG barrels, being <BR>
shorter would be much easier to rifle. Another choke point would be <BR>
good springs, but a single shot weapon would only need one or two, and <BR>
a simple SMG a couple more.<BR>
<BR>
BTW apparently high quality prybars make quite good barrel material. <BR>
Also note that a full-auto only blowback SMG is easy to manufacture <BR>
than a semi-auto pistol or rifle.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:35:37 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Nov 99, at 13:35, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Mark Preston wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > The weapons ban in the UK would be considered extreme by many other<BR>
> > countries. It is far easier to say what is permitted than what is banned<BR>
> > - for instance we are not permitted to carry clubs.<BR>
> <BR>
> And the difference between a club and a cricket-bat is...? Or have they<BR>
> finally outlawed cricket for the evil galaxy-wide-banned habit that it is?<BR>
> ;-)<BR>
<BR>
One is called a baseball bat, the other a cricket bat.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 18:49:10 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up<BR>
<BR>
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>version of DirectX. Apparently MT has a form of DirectX in it, and <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
That would be DirectX 1116, I think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 17:00:31 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Just when we thought we figured it out...<BR>
<BR>
A possible planet's been found, orbiting a binary system...<BR>
<BR>
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9911/03/space.planet.reut/index.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 10:25:28 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Kurt said:<BR>
>Repeal the asinine laws we have, get sensible legislation in place, and let<BR>
>me arm myself to the same level as the military since as a citizen, I am<BR>
>part of the "militia"!<BR>
<BR>
This is the part of the argument I have never understood. I mean, isn't it<BR>
supposed to be "_organised_ militia"?? I mean, Switzerland has an organised<BR>
militia, they have military weapons at home, and it seems to work rather well.<BR>
This doesn't appear to be the case in the US.<BR>
<BR>
However, I don't think you would be able to put the genie back in the bottle:<BR>
too many weapons are already out there, and the population is MUCH larger than<BR>
Sw and less tolerant of regulation. I mean "life, _liberty_, and the pursuit of<BR>
happiness" has been used to justify your democratic right to get killed in a<BR>
crash because you don't want to wear a seatbelt!?!?!<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: different Law Levels, natch. Examples:<BR>
1.   At least one Aussie has been arrested and refused entry to Greece for<BR>
carrying Panadene. Over there, codeine can only be given out with a doctor's<BR>
scrip, whereas here you can buy it over the counter.<BR>
2.   One lady was refused entry to Canada because she had been convicted of<BR>
drink driving in Oz (she had pleaded guilty and received a stiff fine and lost<BR>
her licence). Canada wouldn't allow her entry because she was a "convicted<BR>
criminal"! Let's see your PC's stew over THAT one!<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 16:11:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au writes:<BR>
<BR>
> This is the part of the argument I have never understood. I mean, isn't it<BR>
> supposed to be "_organised_ militia"?? I mean, Switzerland has an organised<BR>
> militia, they have military weapons at home, and it seems to work rather<BR>
> well. This doesn't appear to be the case in the US.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the US does have an 'organized militia'.  It's called the National Guard, and is probably fairly close to what the founders wanted, since they were more states-rights people than democrats per se, and the national guard is under the control of individual states (and does, incidentally, have military equipment).  However, the second amendment is subject to multiple different interpretations; in particular, it is not obvious that the right to bear arms is _limited_ to the creation of a 'well-ordered militia'.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 16:29:01 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: real world travelling:  Detroit<BR>
<BR>
I'll be in Detroit (maybe in Dearborn; how far is<BR>
that) on the evening of Monday 8 November.  If any<BR>
fellow travellers would like to meet for dinner or<BR>
whatever, or have suggestions for things to do, please<BR>
email me off-list.  <BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1302<BR>
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